Discussion:
WADI mailing lists
(too old to reply)
Geir Magnusson Jr.
2005-12-14 18:12:58 UTC
Permalink
I'm looking at doing the mail lists for WADI.

The wiki says

wadi-dev
wadi-user
etc...

but is this

@incubator or @geronimo?

Yes, the G PMC is the sponsor, but WADI could potentially be a TLP...

Let me know...

geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
***@apache.org
Garrett Rooney
2005-12-14 18:41:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
I'm looking at doing the mail lists for WADI.
The wiki says
wadi-dev
wadi-user
etc...
but is this
@incubator or @geronimo?
Yes, the G PMC is the sponsor, but WADI could potentially be a TLP...
Historically I believe if a project is intended to become a subproject
of an existing TLP the mailing lists have been created at that project
(i.e. @greronimo in this case), because moving them later is a pain.
So if the intention is to make WADI a subproject of G then that's
where they should go. On the other hand, I believe if projects are
intended to become their own TLP they start out with @incubator lists,
although I haven't actually been involved with any of those so I'm not
as certain about that case.

-garrett
Geir Magnusson Jr.
2005-12-14 18:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Right. I've heard discussion both ways on this, so just want someone
to clarify. I don't really care.

geir
Post by Garrett Rooney
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
I'm looking at doing the mail lists for WADI.
The wiki says
wadi-dev
wadi-user
etc...
but is this
@incubator or @geronimo?
Yes, the G PMC is the sponsor, but WADI could potentially be a TLP...
Historically I believe if a project is intended to become a subproject
of an existing TLP the mailing lists have been created at that project
So if the intention is to make WADI a subproject of G then that's
where they should go. On the other hand, I believe if projects are
although I haven't actually been involved with any of those so I'm not
as certain about that case.
-garrett
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
***@apache.org
Bruce Snyder
2005-12-15 19:49:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Right. I've heard discussion both ways on this, so just want someone
to clarify. I don't really care.
geir
Post by Garrett Rooney
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
I'm looking at doing the mail lists for WADI.
The wiki says
wadi-dev
wadi-user
etc...
but is this
@incubator or @geronimo?
Yes, the G PMC is the sponsor, but WADI could potentially be a TLP...
Historically I believe if a project is intended to become a subproject
of an existing TLP the mailing lists have been created at that project
So if the intention is to make WADI a subproject of G then that's
where they should go. On the other hand, I believe if projects are
although I haven't actually been involved with any of those so I'm not
as certain about that case.
Given that the Geronimo PMC is sponsoring WADI and the current
destination for WADI is as a subproject of Geronimo, I think it's
appropriate for the lists to use @geronimo.

Bruce
--
perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
);'

The Castor Project
http://www.castor.org/

Apache Geronimo
http://geronimo.apache.org/
Noel J. Bergman
2005-12-16 21:01:56 UTC
Permalink
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.

The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.

THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.

--- Noel
Geir Magnusson Jr.
2005-12-16 21:19:21 UTC
Permalink
since it's so easy to move them, should we move the latest projects
coming into incubator to @incubator?

geir
Post by Noel J. Bergman
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put
mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the
eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project
resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
***@apache.org
William A. Rowe, Jr.
2005-12-16 21:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
since it's so easy to move them, should we move the latest projects
If the list is relatively new, then yes.

It would seem silly to do this to a project that's been around 6 mos+
and is nearing graduation (or the -other- alternative disposition).
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
+1
Dain Sundstrom
2005-12-16 22:35:06 UTC
Permalink
My personal preference is to have incubated sub-projects use mailing
lists and websites within the TLP containing a notice header that the
project is under incubation (and may die). My understanding is that
you feel having the email address containing the word "incubator"
will warn users, and I believe that we can achieve the same (or
better) with a mail footer that contains the notice. Note: we already
have footers automatically added to every email.

Regardless, my desire for consistency vastly out weighs my arguments
above, so if the this policy change is approved by the incubator
community, I would like to see all mailing lists (with the exception
of the few that are about to graduate) be changed to @incubator.

-dain
Post by William A. Rowe, Jr.
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
since it's so easy to move them, should we move the latest
If the list is relatively new, then yes.
It would seem silly to do this to a project that's been around 6 mos+
and is nearing graduation (or the -other- alternative disposition).
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Post by Noel J. Bergman
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the
domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move
mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
+1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Geir Magnusson Jr.
2005-12-16 23:52:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dain Sundstrom
My personal preference is to have incubated sub-projects use
mailing lists and websites within the TLP containing a notice
header that the project is under incubation (and may die). My
understanding is that you feel having the email address containing
the word "incubator" will warn users, and I believe that we can
achieve the same (or better) with a mail footer that contains the
notice. Note: we already have footers automatically added to every
email.
Regardless, my desire for consistency vastly out weighs my
arguments above, so if the this policy change is approved by the
incubator community, I would like to see all mailing lists (with
the exception of the few that are about to graduate) be changed to
@incubator.
To what end?
Post by Dain Sundstrom
-dain
Post by William A. Rowe, Jr.
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
since it's so easy to move them, should we move the latest
If the list is relatively new, then yes.
It would seem silly to do this to a project that's been around 6 mos+
and is nearing graduation (or the -other- alternative disposition).
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Post by Noel J. Bergman
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the
domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move
mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
+1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
***@apache.org
Noel J. Bergman
2005-12-17 00:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dain Sundstrom
My personal preference is to have incubated sub-projects use mailing
lists and websites within the TLP containing a notice header that the
project is under incubation
The inclusion of a footer, perhaps an abbreviated form of the disclaimer
with a URL to the full one, seems a good idea.

Having all resources under the incubator domain was the original requirement
and desire of the Incubator PMC, relaxed only because of technical issues
that no longer apply. These are probational projects, and the PRC (amongst
others) wants to ensure that the incubator branding on these projects is
crystal clear. That includes to people who see nothing other than a URL or
e-mail address.
Post by Dain Sundstrom
if the this policy change is approved by the incubator [PMC]
I would like to see all mailing lists (with the exception of
Geir is making a list right now, and we can put .qmail files in place to
redirect while people adjust.

--- Noel
Noel J. Bergman
2005-12-18 04:49:14 UTC
Permalink
Please vote on the following:

New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.

+1 from me.

--- Noel

-----Original Message-----
From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:***@devtech.com]
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
To: ***@incubator.apache.org
Subject: @domain for Incubator mailing lists


There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.

The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.

THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.

--- Noel
Davanum Srinivas
2005-12-18 05:01:09 UTC
Permalink
+1 from me.
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
Mads Toftum
2005-12-18 14:41:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
Absolutely - it is very important that a project under incubation isn't
easily mistaken for a graduated project.

vh

Mads Toftum
--
`Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall
Geir Magnusson Jr.
2005-12-18 15:00:13 UTC
Permalink
+1

Helps keeps things organized... anything that helps there is good
these days...
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put
mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the
eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project
resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
***@apache.org
Jim Jagielski
2005-12-18 17:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.
+1
David Crossley
2005-12-19 00:56:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.

-David
Sanjiva Weerawarana
2005-12-19 06:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.
+1.

Sanjiva.
Erik Abele
2005-12-19 07:15:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1.

Cheers,
Erik
Craig L Russell
2005-12-19 18:24:31 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

-0 (non-binding)

Not to throw a monkey wrench into this, but:

Are we really sure that it's that easy changing an email alias at
graduation time? Unlike svn repos that only a few folks use, mailing
lists are widespread. Have you thought about exactly how to
transition from the project-***@incubator.apache.org to project-
***@new-home.apache.org? Will there be a forwarding of the old alias
to the new alias at graduation? How long will the forwarding last?
Will there be a consolidated archive of the old alias and the new
alias? Will there be any continuation of threads from the old alias
to the new alias?

Without a clear policy on the transitioning of the mail lists, and
tools to facilitate the transition I'm not sure it's a good idea.

Craig
Post by Noel J. Bergman
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put
mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the
eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project
resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:***@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Eddie O'Neil
2005-12-19 18:35:58 UTC
Permalink
I can speak from our Beehive experience moving from Incubator to TLP.
When we graduated, Infra successfully migrated all of our:

beehive-<list>@incubator.apache.org

into:

<list>@beehive.apache.org

including all of our subscribers and message history. Thanks, much
Infra! :) The merged archives are available here:

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/beehive-dev/

I believe that the beehive-<list>@incubator aliases still forward to the
new lists as I occasionally see mail from Beehive and Geronimo lists
that still go to @incubator addresses. Could be wrong about this,
though -- can someone from Infra confirm this?

If the goal is identifying things as incubating, my vote is a
(non-binding) +1 for projects that live here.

Eddie
Post by Craig L Russell
Hi,
-0 (non-binding)
Are we really sure that it's that easy changing an email alias at
graduation time? Unlike svn repos that only a few folks use, mailing
lists are widespread. Have you thought about exactly how to transition
the old alias to the new alias at graduation? How long will the
forwarding last? Will there be a consolidated archive of the old alias
and the new alias? Will there be any continuation of threads from the
old alias to the new alias?
Without a clear policy on the transitioning of the mail lists, and tools
to facilitate the transition I'm not sure it's a good idea.
Craig
Post by Noel J. Bergman
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Dain Sundstrom
2005-12-19 18:11:05 UTC
Permalink
-1 I prefer to have a new sub project associated with the TLP
community and use a footer to note incubation status.

BTW would activemq-***@incubator.geronimo.apache.org or activemq-dev-
***@geronimo.apache.org be ok, since they contain the word
incubate?

-dain
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put
mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the
eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project
resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Mads Toftum
2005-12-19 18:31:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dain Sundstrom
incubate?
Nope - it still seems like you're trying to hide that a project is under
incubation. Keeping projects under incubation in the incubator.a.o is a
simple and clean way to seperate the projects and makes it a lot easier
to clean up if they don't graduate. Sticking a project under a specific
pmc up front also adds additional bother if it later shows to either
merit going directly to tlp or to be a better fit with another pmc.

vh

Mads Toftum
--
`Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall
Dain Sundstrom
2005-12-20 00:19:21 UTC
Permalink
Give me a break. I'm not trying to hide anything. You have a goal
to make sure that no one is confused about the status of an
incubating project, and you have a proposal that you believe works
for mailing lists. I am suggesting alternate proposal.

If you don't like my proposal, simply state that, but please don't
imply that offering an alternate proposal is anything else. If you
have specific, issues with my proposal, that will be welcome also.

-dain
Post by Mads Toftum
Post by Dain Sundstrom
incubate?
Nope - it still seems like you're trying to hide that a project is under
incubation. Keeping projects under incubation in the incubator.a.o is a
simple and clean way to seperate the projects and makes it a lot easier
to clean up if they don't graduate. Sticking a project under a
specific
pmc up front also adds additional bother if it later shows to either
merit going directly to tlp or to be a better fit with another pmc.
vh
Mads Toftum
--
`Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Leo Simons
2005-12-20 10:13:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dain Sundstrom
Give me a break.
No. The incubator PMC has "given breaks" before and it let to undesired
side effects so now we're not going to do that anymore.
Post by Dain Sundstrom
I'm not trying to hide anything.
In general, when discussing policy or a general case, it is a good idea to
not use a personal form of communication, because policy has nothing to do
with specific individuals.

Nevertheless, noted.
Post by Dain Sundstrom
You have a goal
to make sure that no one is confused about the status of an
incubating project, and you have a proposal that you believe works
for mailing lists. I am suggesting alternate proposal.
"You", "I", "me". *We* have a goal. *You* needs to be a part of *we*, in
general there is no "I" involved. This is "us vs a problem", not "you vs
me". Don't confuse the two.
Post by Dain Sundstrom
If you don't like my proposal, simply state that
I read mads his email as exactly that. I even saw two arguments (one
its clean and simple, two its less cumbersome if we decide halfway
through incubation that a project is a better fit elsewhere).
Post by Dain Sundstrom
, but please don't
imply that offering an alternate proposal is anything else.
C'mon, dude! Do you want to bicker about what some words from someone in some
email thread might have "implied" or do you want to help tackle the issue at
hand?

Offering an alternate proposal as part of a vote thread after the discussion
has taken place already where one did not participate *is* "anything else" by
the way. What I didn't like is the very fact that someone out-of-the-blue proposes
an alternate, since that derails the vote thread, takes time and energy of
everyone, and is just counter-productive in the end. You may notice that both Cliff
and I have some reservations but we're not getting in the way of making progress.
Post by Dain Sundstrom
If you have specific, issues with my proposal, that will be welcome also.
Mads listed two. Of those I find the "simpler" qualifier extremely important,
since in general this stuff is not, and that's what leads to confusion,
frustration, etc.

(...)

Anyway, I suggest you accept there is no "break" to be had, you weren't around
when the relevant discussions took place, and hence shouldn't re-start one now.

LSD
Post by Dain Sundstrom
-dain
Post by Mads Toftum
Post by Dain Sundstrom
incubate?
Nope - it still seems like you're trying to hide that a project is under
incubation. Keeping projects under incubation in the incubator.a.o is a
simple and clean way to seperate the projects and makes it a lot easier
to clean up if they don't graduate. Sticking a project under a specific
pmc up front also adds additional bother if it later shows to either
merit going directly to tlp or to be a better fit with another pmc.
vh
Mads Toftum
--
`Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall
---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dain Sundstrom
2005-12-20 18:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leo Simons
Post by Dain Sundstrom
Give me a break.
No. The incubator PMC has "given breaks" before and it let to
undesired
side effects so now we're not going to do that anymore.
Post by Dain Sundstrom
I'm not trying to hide anything.
In general, when discussing policy or a general case, it is a good idea to
not use a personal form of communication, because policy has
nothing to do
with specific individuals.
Nevertheless, noted.
Post by Dain Sundstrom
You have a goal
to make sure that no one is confused about the status of an
incubating project, and you have a proposal that you believe works
for mailing lists. I am suggesting alternate proposal.
"You", "I", "me". *We* have a goal. *You* needs to be a part of *we*, in
general there is no "I" involved. This is "us vs a problem", not "you vs
me". Don't confuse the two.
Post by Dain Sundstrom
If you don't like my proposal, simply state that
I read mads his email as exactly that. I even saw two arguments (one
its clean and simple, two its less cumbersome if we decide halfway
through incubation that a project is a better fit elsewhere).
Post by Dain Sundstrom
, but please don't
imply that offering an alternate proposal is anything else.
C'mon, dude! Do you want to bicker about what some words from
someone in some
email thread might have "implied" or do you want to help tackle the issue at
hand?
+100000 I couldn't agree with you more. It is really annoying when
someone chooses to "bicker about what some words from someone in some
email thread might have "implied"".
Post by Leo Simons
Offering an alternate proposal as part of a vote thread after the discussion
has taken place already where one did not participate *is*
"anything else" by
the way. What I didn't like is the very fact that someone out-of-
the-blue proposes
an alternate, since that derails the vote thread, takes time and energy of
everyone, and is just counter-productive in the end. You may notice that both Cliff
and I have some reservations but we're not getting in the way of making progress.
My proposal is not "out-of-the-blue". I brought this up a few days
ago in the "@domain for Incubator mailing lists" thread to which
there was one completely useless response from Geir "To what end?"
and one from Noel where he agreed that the use of a notification
footer was a good idea, but "having all resources under the incubator
domain was the original requirement and desire of the Incubator PMC,
relaxed only because of technical issues that no longer apply". That
was it and then it became a vote thread, so I added my comments to
the vote thread. It appears that others would like to discuss this
more.
Post by Leo Simons
Post by Dain Sundstrom
If you have specific, issues with my proposal, that will be
welcome also.
Mads listed two. Of those I find the "simpler" qualifier extremely important,
since in general this stuff is not, and that's what leads to
confusion,
frustration, etc.
It always helps a discussion to simply use word like "simpler" and
phrases like "leads to confusion" without a reason why that is true ;)
Post by Leo Simons
Anyway, I suggest you accept there is no "break" to be had, you weren't around
when the relevant discussions took place, and hence shouldn't re-
start one now.
I wasn't aware that new community members weren't welcome in
discussions that took place once a long time ago. In that case, can
you please place a warning on such email threads, since it isn't
possible since all new users will by definition not be aware of such
discussions, and we will kindly keep out of these discussions ;)

-dain
Geir Magnusson Jr.
2005-12-20 19:32:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dain Sundstrom
Post by Leo Simons
Offering an alternate proposal as part of a vote thread after the discussion
has taken place already where one did not participate *is*
"anything else" by
the way. What I didn't like is the very fact that someone out-of-
the-blue proposes
an alternate, since that derails the vote thread, takes time and energy of
everyone, and is just counter-productive in the end. You may
notice that both Cliff
and I have some reservations but we're not getting in the way of making progress.
My proposal is not "out-of-the-blue". I brought this up a few days
there was one completely useless response from Geir "To what end?"
Which you ignored for some reason. Why was it 'useless'? I was
trying to figure out why you wanted all podling email domains to
switch to @incubator, not just the new/recent ones.

I'm still confused on what you actually want, because you voted
against your own suggestion.

geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
***@apache.org
Jochen Wiedmann
2005-12-19 19:54:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
-1 (non-binding)

I don't have the impression, that the older model was causing any
trouble and it was simpler and saved work.


Jochen


--
Often it does seem a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the
boat. (Mark Twain)
Cliff Schmidt
2005-12-20 01:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
-0, and here's why:

- I think identification of the incubating status of projects is very
important, but I personally prefer Dain's suggestion of adding a
footer message to mailing list posts (maybe with a shorter version of
the disclaimer required in READMEs), which might be more effective
than the mailing list address.

- I think that the domain name should reflect the sponsoring project,
whether that is the Incubator PMC or some other PMC.

- I would have been -1, if it wasn't for the fact that Noel says that
it is a minimal infra cost to move mailing lists now.

Cliff
James Strachan
2005-12-20 14:30:04 UTC
Permalink
-0 for the same reason as Cliff; I'd much rather folks not have to
change mail lists (even if its not hard for infrastructure to
change). There is already a status file so its obvious to anyone who
cares what the status is of a project, I don't see why we need to
force email addresses to reflect the status as well.
Post by Cliff Schmidt
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
- I think identification of the incubating status of projects is very
important, but I personally prefer Dain's suggestion of adding a
footer message to mailing list posts (maybe with a shorter version of
the disclaimer required in READMEs), which might be more effective
than the mailing list address.
- I think that the domain name should reflect the sponsoring project,
whether that is the Incubator PMC or some other PMC.
- I would have been -1, if it wasn't for the fact that Noel says that
it is a minimal infra cost to move mailing lists now.
Cliff
---------------------------------------------------------------------
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
Leo Simons
2005-12-20 09:55:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+0

(...)
Post by Noel J. Bergman
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
Indeed. Even in the mind of our own developers it seems.
Post by Noel J. Bergman
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
Changing a mailing list is stil painful "further downstream". Eg with the MARC
archive or mail-archive.com or gmane or whatever. In the HTTP space, we have lots
of tools for URI management (eg mod_rewrite, Redirect, RedirectMatch), in the
email space (eg mailto:***@apache.org) we don't have it (we just have a simple form
of a "Redirect" that doesn't propagate, eg we don't have a "Moved Permanently").
Hence, I remain of the opinion that effort should be taken to make email addresses
"As permanent as possible".

I'll assert there are other concerns that overrule this technical argument (eg
those you gave above and the ones mads listed), but for reference purposes :-)
Post by Noel J. Bergman
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
- Leo
Noel J. Bergman
2005-12-20 18:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leo Simons
Changing a mailing list is stil painful "further downstream".
Eg with the MARC archive or mail-archive.com or gmane or
whatever.
We don't support any of those. We provide the raw and mod_mbox archives,
and those are what we support. As you said, "there are other concerns that
overrule this technical argument."
Post by Leo Simons
In the HTTP space, we have lots of tools for URI management
(we just have a simple form of a "Redirect" that doesn't propagate,
We have the ability to map from the old address to the new one, and that can
be kept for as long or as short as necessary.

--- Noel
Jochen Wiedmann
2005-12-20 19:46:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
We don't support any of those.
Who's "we"? As a user, I still prefer marc over mail-archives a real lot
and am happy about any Apache project that's available on Marc.

But, actually, I replied because your response made me angry. You
(choose between "You" as in "We", or "You" as in "I") are the one who
dictate the rules. Others do fulfill the rules. Is it up to you to
declare that these issues do not exist?


Jochen
Martin Cooper
2005-12-20 19:53:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jochen Wiedmann
Post by Noel J. Bergman
We don't support any of those.
Who's "we"?
The Apache Software Foundation. Those other archives are maintained outside
of the ASF, by people who most likely have no affiliation with the ASF.
Therefore, the ASF cannot provide support for those archives - their support
comes from the organisations that run them.

--
Martin Cooper


As a user, I still prefer marc over mail-archives a real lot
Post by Jochen Wiedmann
and am happy about any Apache project that's available on Marc.
But, actually, I replied because your response made me angry. You
(choose between "You" as in "We", or "You" as in "I") are the one who
dictate the rules. Others do fulfill the rules. Is it up to you to
declare that these issues do not exist?
Jochen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Querna
2005-12-21 04:57:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jochen Wiedmann
Post by Noel J. Bergman
We don't support any of those.
Who's "we"? As a user, I still prefer marc over mail-archives a real lot
and am happy about any Apache project that's available on Marc.
mod_mbox[1] accepts patches. Feel free to help for any part of mod_mbox
or mail-archives.apache.org.

I really could use some help with integrating Lucene or another method
to do full text searching of the archives right now. But help with any
part is always welcome.

-Paul

[1] http://httpd.apache.org/mod_mbox/
David Crossley
2005-12-20 21:31:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
Post by Leo Simons
Changing a mailing list is stil painful "further downstream".
Eg with the MARC archive or mail-archive.com or gmane or
whatever.
We don't support any of those. We provide the raw and mod_mbox archives,
and those are what we support. As you said, "there are other concerns that
overrule this technical argument."
When Cocoon moved from xml.apache.org to cocoon.apache.org
some of us had similar concerns about the foreign archives.
There was no problem. Marc etc. still function properly.

-David
Ted Leung
2005-12-21 18:18:33 UTC
Permalink
+1
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put
mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the
eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project
resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Ted Leung Blog: <http://www.sauria.com/blog>
PGP Fingerprint: 1003 7870 251F FA71 A59A CEE3 BEBA 2B87 F5FC 4B42
This message is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
Carsten Ziegeler
2005-12-22 00:03:58 UTC
Permalink
+1

Carsten
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Carsten Ziegeler - Open Source Group, S&N AG
http://www.s-und-n.de
http://www.osoco.org/weblogs/rael/
Craig L Russell
2005-12-22 00:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Excuse me, but don't we have a -1 on this vote thread already? Is the
idea to get Dain to change his vote by piling on more +1? Or have I
completely missed the Tao of the voting process in Apache?

I thought that after a -1 the discussion started again on the
disagreements.

I'm still looking for an ISO 2000-able mechanism (repeatable,
documented, understandable) to migrate the email lists in the
incubator domain to the eventual TLP domain without losing threads,
context, etc. I see that Cocoon apparently has merged their before-
and after- graduation lists, but don't have any idea how well
documented and repeatable that process was. For all I know, it was
done by superhuman effort by one of the superhumans in infra.

Craig
Post by Carsten Ziegeler
+1
Carsten
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the
eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Carsten Ziegeler - Open Source Group, S&N AG
http://www.s-und-n.de
http://www.osoco.org/weblogs/rael/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:***@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Dain Sundstrom
2005-12-22 00:29:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Craig L Russell
Excuse me, but don't we have a -1 on this vote thread already? Is
the idea to get Dain to change his vote by piling on more +1? Or
have I completely missed the Tao of the voting process in Apache?
I thought that after a -1 the discussion started again on the
disagreements.
FWIU, vetos only apply to technical issues when a technical reason is
given. Normally, Apache looks for "consensus" which at Apache means
all but a few dissenters.

So my -1 represents my strong dislike for this proposal, but it is
nothing more than my opinion.

-dain
Geir Magnusson Jr.
2005-12-22 00:55:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Craig L Russell
Excuse me, but don't we have a -1 on this vote thread already? Is
the idea to get Dain to change his vote by piling on more +1? Or
have I completely missed the Tao of the voting process in Apache?
I thought that after a -1 the discussion started again on the
disagreements.
No - it's not a veto.
Post by Craig L Russell
I'm still looking for an ISO 2000-able mechanism (repeatable,
documented, understandable) to migrate the email lists in the
incubator domain to the eventual TLP domain without losing threads,
context, etc. I see that Cocoon apparently has merged their before-
and after- graduation lists, but don't have any idea how well
documented and repeatable that process was. For all I know, it was
done by superhuman effort by one of the superhumans in infra.
What do you need exactly? can you post it to infra?
Post by Craig L Russell
Craig
Post by Carsten Ziegeler
+1
Carsten
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move
mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
--------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--
Carsten Ziegeler - Open Source Group, S&N AG
http://www.s-und-n.de
http://www.osoco.org/weblogs/rael/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
***@apache.org
Craig L Russell
2005-12-23 21:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Post by Craig L Russell
Excuse me, but don't we have a -1 on this vote thread already? Is
the idea to get Dain to change his vote by piling on more +1? Or
have I completely missed the Tao of the voting process in Apache?
I thought that after a -1 the discussion started again on the
disagreements.
No - it's not a veto.
Ok. My bad.
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Post by Craig L Russell
I'm still looking for an ISO 2000-able mechanism (repeatable,
documented, understandable) to migrate the email lists in the
incubator domain to the eventual TLP domain without losing
threads, context, etc. I see that Cocoon apparently has merged
their before- and after- graduation lists, but don't have any idea
how well documented and repeatable that process was. For all I
know, it was done by superhuman effort by one of the superhumans
in infra.
What do you need exactly? can you post it to infra?
I got a reply from Roy who is one of the "superhumans". He says he
knows how to do it with some scripts.

Roy: "I don't like moving lists unless there is a good reason. It is
a potentially error-prone process if something unforeseen blocks the
move."

What I'm looking for is a repeatable, documented process of migrating
email lists from the project-dev AT incubator.apache.org to project-
dev AT top-level-project.apache.org. What Roy has might be suitable
as a tool for part of the process. There are still questions about
how long the old alias will continue to work and whether threads are
maintained across the alias change.

But I'm still missing the rationale for making this big change to
users with the small justification that it makes the incubator more
visible by having it be in the email alias instead of all over the
web site.

Craig
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Post by Craig L Russell
Craig
Post by Carsten Ziegeler
+1
Carsten
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who
argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the
domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move
mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
-------------------------------------------------------------------
--
--
Carsten Ziegeler - Open Source Group, S&N AG
http://www.s-und-n.de
http://www.osoco.org/weblogs/rael/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/
jdo
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:***@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Roy T. Fielding
2005-12-22 01:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Craig L Russell
I'm still looking for an ISO 2000-able mechanism (repeatable,
documented, understandable) to migrate the email lists in the
incubator domain to the eventual TLP domain without losing threads,
context, etc. I see that Cocoon apparently has merged their before-
and after- graduation lists, but don't have any idea how well
documented and repeatable that process was. For all I know, it was
done by superhuman effort by one of the superhumans in infra.
AFAIK, I don't have superhuman abilities -- just a lot of scripting-foo.

It takes 5 minutes to move a list now, after I spent a couple weeks
working on the scripts to do it. Nevertheless, I don't like moving
lists unless there is a good reason. It is a potentially error-prone
process if something unforeseen blocks the move.

FYI, trailers are also hard to maintain because they go away
every time the list is reconfigured. They also waste bits.

....Roy
William A. Rowe, Jr.
2005-12-22 04:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Craig L Russell
Excuse me, but don't we have a -1 on this vote thread already? Is the
idea to get Dain to change his vote by piling on more +1? Or have I
completely missed the Tao of the voting process in Apache?
I think perhaps you have, and are mixing two concepts...

Any PMC member (read; contributor to project foo) can veto a commit of code
(or docs, or whatever) with a technical justification.

Nobody can veto releases, or procedural decisions or the like. Those are
simple majority votes.

Bill
Greg Stein
2005-12-22 04:25:12 UTC
Permalink
+1
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1 from me.
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 16:02
There has been some discussion and confusion over where to put mailing lists
for projects that are in the Incubator. As the person who argued for the
current approach, which had to do with infrastructure issues, I'm also going
to suggest that it change. We are finding that it is more and more
important to highlight when a project is in the Incubator, and to ensure
that there is no confusion in the mind of the public about that status.
The current approach is to put the mailing lists under the domain of the TLP
into which it was expected that they would go, and THE REASON for this had
to do with the difficulty of moving the mailing lists and the eyebrowse
archives. HOWEVER, Roy has since written a script to move mailing lists,
and we no longer use eyebrowse. And unlike the prior setup, it is fairly
straightforward to redirect an old archive location to a new one.
THEREFORE, new mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of the other project resources,
e.g., the web site and SVN subtree.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
Rodent of Unusual Size
2006-02-21 20:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1
- --
#ken P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
Davanum Srinivas
2006-02-21 22:23:26 UTC
Permalink
+1
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Hash: SHA1
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1
- --
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
Carsten Ziegeler
2006-02-22 09:38:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1
+1

Carsten
--
Carsten Ziegeler - Open Source Group, S&N AG
http://www.s-und-n.de
http://www.osoco.org/weblogs/rael/
Geir Magnusson Jr
2006-02-22 12:43:05 UTC
Permalink
I think that this is the longest active running [vote] thread on an
apache list of all time...

It was started on Sun, 18 Dec 2005 04:49:14 GMT

Noel, can you please tally the votes? :)
Post by Davanum Srinivas
+1
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Post by Noel J. Bergman
New mailing lists should be created under the
@incubator.apache.org domain, just as all of
the other project resources, e.g., the web
site and SVN subtree.
+1
- --
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Geir Magnusson Jr.
2005-12-14 22:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Done. As per the wiki, http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/
WadiProposal, created

wadi-***@incubator.apache.org
wadi-***@incubator.apache.org
wadi-***@incubator.apache.org
wadi-***@incubator.apache.org

And put jgenender and myself as moderators. Any other moderator
volunteers welcome.
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
I'm looking at doing the mail lists for WADI.
The wiki says
wadi-dev
wadi-user
etc...
but is this
@incubator or @geronimo?
Yes, the G PMC is the sponsor, but WADI could potentially be a TLP...
Let me know...
geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
***@apache.org
Matt Hogstrom
2005-12-15 05:07:17 UTC
Permalink
Geir,

You can add me to the volunteer list.

Matt
Done. As per the wiki, http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ WadiProposal,
created
And put jgenender and myself as moderators. Any other moderator
volunteers welcome.
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
I'm looking at doing the mail lists for WADI.
The wiki says
wadi-dev
wadi-user
etc...
but is this
@incubator or @geronimo?
Yes, the G PMC is the sponsor, but WADI could potentially be a TLP...
Let me know...
geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Geir Magnusson Jr.
2005-12-17 14:05:43 UTC
Permalink
done
Post by Matt Hogstrom
Geir,
You can add me to the volunteer list.
Matt
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Done. As per the wiki, http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/
WadiProposal, created
And put jgenender and myself as moderators. Any other moderator
volunteers welcome.
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
I'm looking at doing the mail lists for WADI.
The wiki says
wadi-dev
wadi-user
etc...
but is this
@incubator or @geronimo?
Yes, the G PMC is the sponsor, but WADI could potentially be a TLP...
Let me know...
geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
--------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
***@apache.org
Bruce Snyder
2005-12-15 06:47:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Done. As per the wiki, http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/
WadiProposal, created
And put jgenender and myself as moderators. Any other moderator
volunteers welcome.
Thanks, Geir!

Bruce
--
perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
);'

The Castor Project
http://www.castor.org/

Apache Geronimo
http://geronimo.apache.org/
Geir Magnusson Jr.
2005-12-16 14:07:06 UTC
Permalink
All of the developers? I asked clearly before I made the lists, and
there seemed to be some interest in keeping it @incubator in the
event that it was a TLP when done. Has that now been ruled out?

If you are sure this time, and it is actual consensus, please just
post an infra JIRA.

geir
Post by Bruce Snyder
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Done. As per the wiki, http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/
WadiProposal, created
And put jgenender and myself as moderators. Any other moderator
volunteers welcome.
Thanks, Geir!
The WADI developers would like to have these lists changed to
@geronimo.apache.org instead of @incubator.apache.org. Geir, can you
take care of this or would you prefer that I ask someone else?
Bruce
--
G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
);'
The Castor Project
http://www.castor.org/
Apache Geronimo
http://geronimo.apache.org/
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
***@apache.org
Bruce Snyder
2005-12-16 02:21:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Snyder
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Done. As per the wiki, http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/
WadiProposal, created
And put jgenender and myself as moderators. Any other moderator
volunteers welcome.
Thanks, Geir!
The WADI developers would like to have these lists changed to
@geronimo.apache.org instead of @incubator.apache.org. Geir, can you
take care of this or would you prefer that I ask someone else?

Bruce
--
perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
);'

The Castor Project
http://www.castor.org/

Apache Geronimo
http://geronimo.apache.org/
Geir Magnusson Jr.
2005-12-16 15:22:48 UTC
Permalink
BTW, where was that discussion?
Post by Bruce Snyder
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Done. As per the wiki, http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/
WadiProposal, created
And put jgenender and myself as moderators. Any other moderator
volunteers welcome.
Thanks, Geir!
The WADI developers would like to have these lists changed to
@geronimo.apache.org instead of @incubator.apache.org. Geir, can you
take care of this or would you prefer that I ask someone else?
Bruce
--
G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
);'
The Castor Project
http://www.castor.org/
Apache Geronimo
http://geronimo.apache.org/
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
***@apache.org
Bruce Snyder
2005-12-16 16:04:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
BTW, where was that discussion?
...
Post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
The WADI developers would like to have these lists changed to
@geronimo.apache.org instead of @incubator.apache.org. Geir, can you
take care of this or would you prefer that I ask someone else?
I have no idea where the discussion took place. I believe that
everyone is subscribed to the new list (the @incubator one) so I would
just ask there.

Bruce
--
perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
);'

The Castor Project
http://www.castor.org/

Apache Geronimo
http://geronimo.apache.org/
Noel J. Bergman
2005-12-16 21:04:23 UTC
Permalink
The WADI developers would like to have these lists changed to
@geronimo.apache.org instead of @incubator.apache.org.
See my e-mail regarding mailing list domains.

--- Noel
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